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Inhabitants— I have a question for you all.

Lanza

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2006
Messages
1,109
Yes, I'm going to use a 7th Heaven reference for this— Say your dog broke its leg and it was too senile for the bone to heal, and it was desperately in pain every night and there was nothing you could do about it. Say you decided to pray to God to heal your dog of its broken leg. A few days later, you found your dog died peacefully in her sleep. Did God have a hand in this? Was it his free will all along for this to happen? Sure it was, as any Christian would argue with you that God has a free will for everything in existence, even the mundane facts about our lives. If God does exist, it is quite possible that may be true, but allow me to ask you just one thing: If God has absolute free will of everything in existence, even the mundane, what is the point in praying to him to change something? If he has free will, that would mean that praying in any manner is pointless, right? Please do correct me if I'm wrong about this.
 

Jeffrey

Call me for a good time. Dial 1-800-Hotgirl (Not r
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
237
Yes, I'm going to use a 7th Heaven reference for this— Say your dog broke its leg and it was too senile for the bone to heal, and it was desperately in pain every night and there was nothing you could do about it.

Ideally, the most logical thing anyone (including Christians) would do is take the dog to the vet. If they couldn't do that the dog would just stay with the broken leg and hopefully someone would notice it and the animal police would be called. Saying there's nothing you can do about it is not even idealistic in the Christian world.

Say you decided to pray to God to heal your dog of its broken leg. A few days later, you found your dog died peacefully in her sleep. Did God have a hand in this? Was it his free will all along for this to happen?


God could have a hand in putting down the dog. It died peacefully and may be, just may be God did the right thing in this situation. There's no assurance that someone else would take care of the dog and it is cruel to leave the dog in the painful state it was in. If no one would have gotten the dog it would have been put down eventually anyway consider certain circumstances.

Sure it was, as any Christian would argue with you that God has a free will for everything in existence, even the mundane facts about our lives. If God does exist, it is quite possible that may be true, but allow me to ask you just one thing: If God has absolute free will of everything in existence, even the mundane, what is the point in praying to him to change something? If he has free will, that would mean that praying in any manner is pointless, right? Please do correct me if I'm wrong about this.

God gives people freewill to make their own decisions. If the decision is wrong praying is basically asking God to give them a second chance for the bad decision. People do it all the time. Kids often ask teachers can they retake a test. People change food or drink choices depending on if the food or drink tastes bad. Even major things like when a man begs his wife for forgiveness because of infidelity during a previous time. This is one of the reasons why asking God for forgiveness is so big in the Christian faith.

I believe that many people believe God never hurts people and he's supposed to be merciful, but I think that if God exists he gets rid of those people (not necessarily kills them) who no longer serve him any purpose just as most humans would do. This is evident time and time again when he casted Satan out of heaven and when he killed all the people during the flood. Most look at that as hypocritical and they would be right, especially when the Bible says stuff like "Do not kill", but then again as I said I view God differently than most Christians.

By the way I like debating these topics. Kind of fun just to play devil's advocate.
 

Lanza

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2006
Messages
1,109
Jeffrey said:
Ideally, the most logical thing anyone (including Christians) would do is take the dog to the vet. If they couldn't do that the dog would just stay with the broken leg and hopefully someone would notice it and the animal police would be called. Saying there's nothing you can do about it is not even idealistic in the Christian world.
Well... the people in the storyline wanted the reverend to put the dog down because they couldn't do it themselves, and then the reverend couldn't put himself up to it either so they went to the park and the dog died there... but I digress from irrelevancy. Just spreading around 7th Heaven plots, I guess.

Jeffery said:
God gives people freewill to make their own decisions. If the decision is wrong praying is basically asking God to give them a second chance for the bad decision. People do it all the time. Kids often ask teachers can they retake a test. People change food or drink choices depending on if the food or drink tastes bad. Even major things like when a man begs his wife for forgiveness because of infidelity during a previous time. This is one of the reasons why asking God for forgiveness is so big in the Christian faith.
I suppose I was being vague with my description and question. I was referring to what Christian's call 'God's plan for everything.' What I intended to mention was if God has this plan for everything in reality to occur, what would be the point in praying to alter something? The way I revere it, praying would be pointless if God has a plan for everything in existence from the beginning. Example: If someone prayed to become sober, and God's entire plan of that specific person's life conflicted him becoming sober for whatever reason, it would make praying virtually pointless. But again, correct me if I'm wrong, as I would enjoy any alternative.
 

Nazo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
4,987
The way I revere it, praying would be pointless if God has a plan for everything in existence from the beginning.

Holy shit. I never thought of that before.
 

Omni

<b><font size=4><font color=171717>Sola Fide
Joined
Aug 30, 2006
Messages
1,217
If everything was preordained, we wouldn't be required to do anything or redeem ourselves because we'd never do anything bad if we were meant to be pure. Not to mention there wouldn't be so many people who didn't believe in God.
 

Lanza

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2006
Messages
1,109
I am dead.

If everything was preordained, we wouldn't be required to do anything or redeem ourselves because we'd never do anything bad if we were meant to be pure. Not to mention there wouldn't be so many people who didn't believe in God.
I was under the conviction that God could have a plan and allow us the gift of free will at the same time. What I mean by that is that there is a distinct possibility that within the course of God's plan where he would want people to make decisions, whether the decisions are good or bad, or to have the capability of objective thought of him and his plan— as I'm sure having objective thought could be part of his plan coming to action. Maybe he would like for people to have the choice because his procedure involves people going to his kingdom and to hades... because, well, maybe that's just what he would have wanted from the very beginning, since every single circumstance in his creation is predestined. But this is, of course, one of my hypothetical views.
 
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