Esther Vilar's The Manipulated Man

Discussion in 'Serious Discussions' started by Rainbow Deluxe, Jan 12, 2011.

  1. Rainbow Deluxe Duchess of All Things Pretty and Music

    Esther Vilar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I put this in serious discussion for an obvious reason: this could turn into a very big (if not nasty) debate.

    As I was reading through this article, I realized that I do not disagree with anything that I have read. Particularly right here:

    Because it's true. Women are grown up and taught to be sexually reclusive. But at the same time, those that aren't, are branded as sluts and treated as outcasts. The prime example of a double-edged sword.

    Now, I'm not sure I quite agree here, because in this day and age (granted, this book was written in 1971 so this point is probably invalid), women are becoming more and more the doter, rather than the dotee. But at the same time, it's still a little weird for women to approach a man, to initiate the date, and initiate more intimate contact, but not due to women's control over them. This is more so seen out of pride (though I don't have anything to back up other than personal experience) rather than because women have trained men to do so. A lot of men (not all, but a lot) feel that they aren't as manly if their "woman" pays for the date, has a better paying job, drives a better car, etc. I will agree that a lot of the time, men are rewarded with praise when they do the things listed, like pull out the chair, hold the door open and let the woman through first, etc., but once again, this is more so due from pride. A lot of men are raised in an environment, more so with their fathers and mothers, that this is how you're supposed to treat a woman, because it's the manly thing to do, rather than to earn praise from women if they do it, or get scolded if they don't. Chivalry is an etiquette that is taught from man to man, not something that men do to get praised, even if that does happen.

    Once again, this is more along the lines of his male friends that do the name calling, rather than his wife or girlfriend. In this day and age, a lot of women (not all, but a lot) have begun to prefer having control over the house, paying the bills, having a job, and the husband staying at home. But it's the men that see this as laziness, as being a loser, as being less of a man when they find out their friends are staying at home, doing the cleaning, cooking, and driving the kids to school.

    This is something that I will agree to, because it does happen. Though I've never done this, because I'm not that much of a drama queen, most of my girl friends, along with even my mom and my sister, have done things like this to get what they want out of the relationship. They've called their boyfriends assholes for not doing what they wanted, or acting all surprised when they've found out they've been cheated on. But, at the same time, this is another reason why girls put themselves out there so much. Because they've learned at a young age that if they don't offer up sex right away, a lot of guys will just run to one that will put out.

    Once again, we're to the very first point at the beginning of the post. If women come off as easy, and throw themselves at men, they're branded as sluts and regarded as such. It just seems to be a very vicious cycle.

    At any rate, I would love to read the book, just to see what else is said in it. I'll try to look for it at the library, or maybe Borders.
  2. Tentei No Mai Bitch Pudding!

    I remember Vilar's book being a topic of interest in one of my psychology classes. Still, I REALLY want to jump into this discussion, so I'll click on the link for a review later.

    Jesus, this quack is off her rocker! Sure, the book was published decades ago, but I can't relate to it at all. Now, I know some people actually go out and do those things or have done them, but my household isn't so..."traditional". Well, my mother would run guilt trips to manipulate people, but it wasn't just against the males and my father is of the chivalry type even though he'd help just about anyone who needs it (actually, he's a bit of a womanizer, so never mind). However, my and siblings and I were raised rather similarly. Being independent was something we were taught regardless of our gender and stuff like wasn't something for us to be ashamed about.

    Chivalry should die and be replaced with manners and etiquette that applies to both sexes.

    On dates I pay for my own meal, but some guys are particularly prideful which isn't exactly amusing. Plus, I find playing mind games to be highly distasteful and have condemned many bitches for that shit. It's crap like The Manipulated Man that makes women out to be conniving cunts (sure, some are, but can't they be the minority and not the majority?).
  3. PKT Forever /a/lone

    Yeah, having that exact game being played on me is the exact reason I don't date. It's total bullshit that this still goes on or that it even went on at all. This sort of thing has been going on for ages but the woman is most often times seen as the automatic victim.

    A woman who hits a man is seen as joking or never to be taken seriously as a threat but the other way around is the scum of the Earth.
  4. Tentei No Mai Bitch Pudding!

    Oh, definitely! If I throw the first punch I'm expecting some retaliation in return no matter the gender, so I just don't get why a woman tackle a man twice her size for the dumbest thing and expect to get away with it? I mean, I got into some serious scruffles in my day, but I was a fighter u__u. It's not gentlemanly to let some chick bitch slap you across the room without ever doing anything physical or at least, HIGHLY seriously (I'm talking jail time here)-it's just being scared that the moment you lay a finger on her she's going to run screaming "DOMESTIC ABUSE, I'M BATTERED" into the night just to get the guy in trouble. I don't condone violence when it's unnecessary and no matter how hard you yell at someone it's still better than getting physical.
  5. PKT Forever /a/lone

    Oh yeah I was meaning to add that the aritcle kinda doesn't leave much room for love, I uess. With that sort of blind love which only lasts however long a person may not even mind all of the double edged dating sword there is out there. I can't honestly say that it isn't skewed from the women side as well. I wouldn't mind a lot of things in a chick but eh some are more the traditional type and end up waiting and waiting and waiting for however long.
  6. Tentei No Mai Bitch Pudding!

    Love, eh? I was never really the lovey dovey type, romantically speaking. It was a concept that felt a little foreign to me even though I liked listening to my comrades go on about it and romance-related manga was always interesting. Well, for a lot of people who Vilar's approach their concept of love may be a bit disjointed, so it would be cause for concern. Actually, putting some thought into it...I never really chased mai haanii and I was quite worried about his intentions even though we were...well, really not comrades, but definitely not strangers either. He was such a stalker and despite not really playing hard to get...I bet from another perspective it looked like it -__-. Goddamn Vilar. Long story short it took some time for me believe in his intentions, but when I was worth it. Still, either way it goes I guess it takes trust and some bravery >__>. There will always be skanks out there, but there will also be down to earth lasses who actually give a damn about what's on the inside instead of your wallet.
  7. PKT Forever /a/lone

    Eh, there are all kinds out there, even though things may have been more that way in her slice of earth at that time.

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